Last night, one of my single Jordanian girlfriends was over. As she was getting ready to go, her mom called and the conversation went like this: “Habeebti, waynik? Laysh mitakhari? Libisti ta’iyyatik? La taukhudi barid, tab?”. My friend rolled her eyes “Yella, Mama. Biddik shi?”
She is Miss Bank Executive: smart, clever, discerning, cute and waiting for Mr. Right. She got her masters in the US, knows how to live independently, but like most girls in her situation, lives at home with her parents. Her parents want to know where she is every second, will hound her with calls if she isn’t where they think she should be. She has to get their permission to go certain places (in Amman, yani, not international travel, God forbid) and at times, doesn’t even have access to the car as her dad or brother may take it if theirs is in the shop.
I really like the idea of ladies living at home until they are married, to save money, etc. My parents essentially told me at 18 I wasn’t welcome to live at home permanently, it was either go to school or get a job and move out. I could stay in the summer if I paid rent (or drove my brothers everywhere). I bought my own car at 17, my own small home and new car at 24. My own situation was too much freedom and responsibility too soon for me to handle it.
But I don’t like the hyper-controlled life my friend and others have to live. I mean, mom feels she needs to tell her late 20’s daughter to wear a hat in the rain?
It seems there are a number of 25 year olds out there who are ready to go impact their world, who are mature and capable of making their own choices, who are not free to do so. It seems an unnecessarily stringent confining of female energy and spirit
I’d love to hear from you ladies what that must feel like? If you had the freedom to change things about being ‘parented’ as an adult, what would they be?
February 19, 2008 at 9:02 am |
ahh Kinzi! My mom asks me to go to the bathroom before we leave the house n’ am 28! LOL
Well, I do also enjoy the benefits of staying with my parents and not economically speaking of course but it’s sense of security which could sometimes strangle me yet I always sit down n’ think life is short and soon someone will be missed God forbid.. bas for someone my age, I hate to be controlled and I would love to be independent bas of course as an Arab chick that’s not gonna happen and soon enough I will be under someone’s else’s control
We are treated like little kids, no matter how influential a lady is, as long as she is single khalas.. I was just arguing with my mother over phone because of my job which I can’t take anymore and although it’s my decision, she seems to have the “right” to tell me what to do about it! Help!
February 19, 2008 at 9:24 am |
Chika, NO WAY!!! She asks you to go to the bathroom? I hope husbands don’t start with that after marriage, too, lol. May the man God has for you cut you a little more slack than Mama.
Yes, the security aspect is nice, it would feel safe to a degree. But I think it might also inspire a bit of rebellion and deception! I will pray for you, it seems all I can do!
February 19, 2008 at 9:42 am |
Wow. I was out of the house by 17 (studied out of state), married by 19, two kids by 25. Now I’m the mom of three girls, who, until they decide to marry, will hopefully be with their father and myself, in the house. Because, like you, I tasted that ‘freedom’ so early on, I think that smothering these kids is going to be detrimental. We have to let them live their lives, and this can be done lovingly with limits but not in control-freak mode, I hope.
I also am a warrior against the double standard. If my 23 year old unmarried daughter cannot go certain places, neither can my 23 year old unmarried SON. This is the one that baffles me here: the boys can run free, haunt whatever not-so-desirable places they feel inclined to, and get into trouble that if the girls got into, they would be shunned from society. I do not play into the double standard and it is tragic that so many do.
February 19, 2008 at 10:09 am |
Umm Farouq…what is it with the number 3? I have 3 boys, then the little Kinz came along to even out the testosterone imbalance in the house.
One nice thing for us, it seems third culture kids of either gender prefer to live with parents until they marry
Good for you to carry on the battle against double standards; may many join you! I am also baffled at how totally undesirable behaviour is winked at in boys. I’m a firm believer that self-control IS a trait boys/men can acquire by practice, and virginity (physical and emotional)is just as good for the goose as the gander
February 19, 2008 at 11:50 am |
I really wish i can have my own place, when we were younger i used to share my room with my 5 years younger sister and my brother and baby sister used to share the other.. and when my sister got married my youngest sister moved to my room of course.. I am 28 and share a room, with my 12 year old sister.. can you imagine that??
If my mom wants to go out to visit her friend or something and find out that I am staying home she either asks me to go with her or cancels her plans so i wont stay home alone… she says “ma biddi atrikek la7alek… what the hell??!! I know she is doing this for me but it drives me crazy.. I need some space..
Dont get me wrong I love my family and adore my brother and sisters but sometimes I just want to be kept alone..
I think if I ever told her that I want to move out she will have a heart attack..
I think I would understand her more when I have my own children and I would go crazy finding out that they are bored with me and want to leave the house but this is how I feel now…
February 19, 2008 at 11:58 am |
Princess, you have a very sweet mother and family…I do think I would be a little crazy if I didn’t have a space to have and develop my own thoughts. All by myself would not be a sad state, but a happy one! I wish there was some acceptable inbetween state of being between adult child at home and wife in another home.
February 19, 2008 at 1:25 pm |
Its very nice to have parents who care and ask about you always! and deep inside us we need that
and i don’t think its a good idea to get freedom by 18 , and live alone! people these days are not ready to make a sandwich at 18 , beside its not acceptable in our society and religion of course:), am 24 married woman and i have to phone mom every day and if one i didn’t she get worried, i need to hear her voice every day and listen to her advices in every problem i have.. she is my best girl friend! i do always remind myself how much my parents love us and how much they care and how much i have to be thankful and stay by their side when ever they need… and if they have asked me to leave home by 18 i wouldn’t be grateful that much!! sorry i don’t mean anything wallah bs this is my point of view which am siding with 
February 19, 2008 at 1:52 pm |
i dont think responsibility comes with an age limit, personally ive been financially independant and working since i was 17, sophomor year. studied abroad for 4 years and came back to one year with parents then moved out at 21. well technically my parents moved out lol they went back to jordan and i stayed put, i was born and raised here i just dint want to go back to jordan..im not used to it at all.. and altho i was too young, but i have no brothers mind u, so i decided to live on my own here AND fully support my parents coz they both retired at that point.. as opposed to the society’s stereotypes, living alone doesnt make a girl ‘bad’ or drive her into unethical freedom. if ur raised right with a solid foundation and principles, that wont change if u move away from the 2 ppl who gave u half of that! some ppl have certain circumstances like myself that force them to live away.. and if society doesnt understand, its their problem, not mine.
mind u im not saying its the best way to build ur independance, but personally, i found bliss away from home. i like my solitude and i have a system, i did apply it even when i was younger and with my parents but i just like my life the way it is now. my flat, my space, my time, thats how i like it.
freedom is way overrated i reckon, ppl donno the real meaning of it so when its granted to them they misuse it (just like power) but if ppl know what its all about then there wont be a problem.
February 19, 2008 at 2:19 pm |
Wesam, I love hearing stories where this kind of life works for the daughter too, and that you and your mom are so close. LOL, that people can’t make a sandwich at 18! My family did not have any religion (I am still the only one in my family who believes in God), and that does play a big role. My kids, too funny, they want us to move back to America when they go to college so they can still live with us. Sweet.
Verbal Alchemy, now this sounds like a good example of middle ground. A level-headed and responsible young woman, and parents who trust her and back her, and believe her to live morally yet alone. Bravo alayki, Proud Pali, may my little girl turn out to be like you.
February 19, 2008 at 2:54 pm |
Personally I feel that if the law says you are old enough to vote and that you are responsible for your own actions, you have no business living with and mooching off your parents and letting them make decisions for you.
Over here in Slovenia it is also common for people to live with their folks till they get married…or as long as possible. The result is people in their 20s and 30s who don’t know how to do their own laundry. My parents would be insulted if I would try to live with them at my age and let them make decisions for me. It would be like telling them that they didn’t do their job and raised a moron who can’t take care of or think for herself…
By the way, belated thanks for your congrats way back… I know a blog post is way overdue from my side… Have been swamped with translation work and keep putting it off…
Cheers!
February 19, 2008 at 3:21 pm |
yes i really mean it , my brother is 21 and he is not ready to do anything by himself… i can’t imagine him living alone, he never woke up to university alone! once mom forgot to wake him up and he slept until 12 am and lost his lec., lovely kids do you see how much it makes us happy to feel them close.. wish them a very nice and successful life beside their parents:).. anyway it is hard to deal with a family that doesn’t have your beliefs ..
February 19, 2008 at 3:36 pm |
Most places in the world today, young people can’t afford to move out and they are not willing to start at the bottom nor live with roommates. There is no free lunch.
As for your topic of your post, it depends on the culture obviously.
February 19, 2008 at 6:25 pm |
Wesam: perhaps you should get your brother an alarm clock for his next birthday…
February 19, 2008 at 6:49 pm |
I’ve been living outside of my parents house for over two years now, and although it can be difficult living with another person (I live with my boyfriend of almost three years), I wouldn’t change it for the world.
Being financially independent during college after a brief stint in the military, I tried my best to respect my parents’ wishes and whatnot, but after awhile it became too much. I was sick of having my parents badger me at the age of 21 about how coming home at midnight is not “what a Muslim woman” does. I started spending more time on campus (I had a dorm room I never used, thank you full scholarship!), then pretty much moved in with my boyfriend without my parents knowing until way after the fact.
I still talk to my mom on an almost daily basis, but her and my dad have done a good job to respect the fact that I’m old enough to make my own decisions, even though they don’t agree with many of them.
February 19, 2008 at 7:15 pm |
Beti, it sounds more like enabling if an adult European doesn’t know how to do his/her laundry.
Wesam, now THAT is extreme…he’s 21 and can’t wake up himself?
Closeness IS great, but it seems then his wife will have to take over the wake-up call if he doesnt’ learn!
Brian, good point. Many US young people aren’t willing to start at a less affluent life than they have at home.
Chickpea, you have a very interesting story being a Muslim in the US, without the pressure of society to conform to. Now I understand some of your blog better
. I’m not a big fan of living together outside of marriage myself…do your parents ask when you plan to marry?
February 19, 2008 at 7:16 pm |
Beti, it sounds more like enabling if an adult European doesn’t know how to do his/her laundry.
Wesam, now THAT is extreme…he’s 21 and can’t wake up himself?
Closeness IS great, but it seems then his wife will have to take over the wake-up call if he doesnt’ learn!
Brian, good point. Many US young people aren’t willing to start at a less affluent life than they have at home.
Chickpea, you have a very interesting story being a Muslim in the US, without the pressure of society to conform to. Now I understand some of your blog better
. Do your parents ask when you plan to marry?
February 19, 2008 at 10:27 pm |
Ok- so my mom and I are really close and I still go to her for advice when I need it. However, she has always let me make my own mistakes and learn from them. I live alone (well I have my dog), but I was taught right from wrong and that stays with me no matter where I live. I can’t believe that one commenter has a brother who can’t wake himself up! My mom would NEVER put up with that one- she’d let me be late and call it “natural consequences” if I missed a class. That said, if my mom and I lived in the same city, I wouldn’t hate living with her. She wouldn’t call me and want to know where I was, etc. From the sounds of the comments, one can be independent even while living with parents, and one can be dependent even living away from parents. My mom says her role as a parent evolves with her children’s ages. When we were younger, she had to teach and discipline. As we got older she was more of a counselor, and now that we’re grown up, she is mostly a friend and part-time therapist.
February 20, 2008 at 2:42 am |
Kinzi,
Oh yes, my parents used to ask me a lot after I first told them about my bf. Now they mention it less often, but I know it’s still on their mind. I’m not even 25 and I going through my first year of law school, so the M word wont be happening any time soon!
I think the main reason they pushed the issue in the beginning is because they didn’t want to acknowledge that I was living in sin… with an atheist! Gasp!
February 20, 2008 at 9:07 am |
kinzi, bless u and ur little girl :hug:
February 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm |
I am 26, and I still live with my parents by choice. Why? Because I want to save money and have a solid foundation from where I can step smoothly to the outside world to be on my own. If I get married before that, oh well. I also chose to stay, so I can spend as much time with my siblings as possible. We all have a wonderful relationship, and I would like to drink from this fountain of memories as much as I can. I am financially independent. I pay all my living expenses except rent which they will never ask me to do. Now let me shed some light on what kind of parents they are. My mother is the sweetest mother anyone can have. She is so good-natured that anyone can snatch food out of her hands and eat it, and she will give him/her the rest of it. Her only problem is seeing the world in white or black, nothing in between. She thinks along the line: never drive because you might have an accident, or If you made a grave mistake, you are unforgivable, and so on. Now, my father is not that trusting of a person. He does trust me with his life, but he doesn’t trust anyone else, Period. Based on his logic, he tries to keep me sheltered thinking I will be safe.
I really get upset by the way they regard life, but I don’t try to press the issue too much because I can’t change the way they are. They were raised to think a certain way, and I can’t blame them. I think one day I might have my children regard me the same way, so I stay patient. I am starting to break a little from their circle of obsessed care.
We still have many unpleasant discussions about life. My mother does not believe in a single girl living outside her family’s house. I ask her “Why? Don’t you trust me?” She says: “Yes, absolutely, but people will talk.” Go figure how that works. I know if I want to leave, I can do that very easily, but I will feel like the black sheep of the family. Once I was peeling an orange, and she stood behind me and instructed me on how I should do that. I almost exploded with anger. I guess she saw the look on my face and felt how silly her remark was because she kept quiet and did not say anything else. I know she does not mean it, but God help me, it hurts sometimes.
The funny thing is that I am asking for things that is not even wrong or immoral. I just want to be my own person, be independent, and be strong. I was immature not to say what I think out loud before. You always think your parents know everything and are right about everything until that moment when you realize that they are human, and they make mistakes. Now, I argue and enforce my opinions to make them see what I mean. Once I started doing that, they started to grasp some of my logic. They just need someone to coax them out of their fear of “people’s talk”.
February 20, 2008 at 10:46 pm |
(sorry I didnt’ comment back today, will tomorrow! Great stuff, ladies!)
February 22, 2008 at 11:49 pm |
Kinzi, my mom still tells me what to wear and I’m 24. She also nags at me every morning to eat breakfast. If I don’t bother, she insists by making it for me and then almost forces me to have it (I think it’s cute, actually).
I think we (Middle Eastern people) all have to resign to the fact that our parents will always see us as their ‘children’. We’re adults when it’s convenient for them, like when we’ve done something wrong and we have to ‘take responsibility because you’re old enough’. We’re children when it comes to making life-changing decisions that are work or marriage related; then we’re ‘not experienced enough to know what we’re talking about’. It’s very very very VERY frustrating to say the least. But I get where my parents come from. I feel that the generation gap between us is so wide for all the political, economical, global, and cultural reasons you can think of.
I think things have changed so fast between our parents’ time and ours that they simply just don’t know how to deal with it.
One thing I’ve learned, always listen to your mom when she tells you to wear a jacket when you head out. Oh the times I had to freeze due to the lack of weather forecasting sense that my mother seems to have and master.
February 23, 2008 at 4:21 pm |
Kinzi, very interesting topic. Like many (most?) Americans I moved out for college and never moved back. In fact, my mother was determined (to the point of taking on loans) that I would not live at home. She saw (rightfully so at a small school like mine) that college provided that mid-way step between living at home and living on your own. After college, I livedwith my older cousin (she’s like 8 years my senior). She taught me about budgeting, paying yourself first in the form of savings, and hw to have friends in social situations (write thank you notes, although I rarely do it), invite those who invite you to you house or they wont keep invitin you and such).
Having said that, even in the US, it’s a regional thing. In Philly where it’s insanely expensive, people typically move back home after college. In Alabama it’s nearly unheard of (in other words only the adult moochers do it).
There are two things that have been hard to get used to here. First, as Princess said, when we came to visit, TetaBean wouldn’t go out of the house if I wanted to stay behind. Being the kind of person who needs a certain amount of quiet alone time, this would drive me batty. Now that we live here, it’s not a problem any more
. Second is, adult children (mid-late twenties and older) getting ordered by their parents to get things for guests. When I took Arabic, my tutor would tell her daughter to make tea. Can you imagine this happening in the US? As if! I have to admit that this behavior is over the top to me, but that’s a cultural thing and there’s certainly nothing wrong with it.
February 24, 2008 at 10:09 am |
Lulu and al., thanks so much for sharing your thoughts here!! There is SO much involved, and it is true that there is a big generation gap, cultural gap. I really do feel for you guys, and pray for some kind of compromise that works for both generations. I may have to write about you!!
MommaBean, wow, another ‘inside-out’ story. You guys seem to have found a good balance in making it work between worlds.
February 26, 2008 at 5:11 pm |
[...] in the towel and get hitched, are kind of like being in limbo. A probation of sorts. All the while, we have to get used to hyper-control and confinement, because otherwise, God forbid, we will become ‘bad marriage material’ and, dear Lord, gain a ‘bad [...]
February 26, 2008 at 8:09 pm |
Okay I have a question. I definitely believe that double standards are 100% wrong, but when it comes to your children do you really have the same curfew for the boys as you do for the girls? Do you completely implement the idea?
February 27, 2008 at 1:40 am |
Hi Kinzi – very nice blog. A friend of mine once told me that under nurturing by parents during a person’s childhood and formative years is as devastating as over nurturing once a person is capable to be independent (What you are calling the 20 somethings).
You have touched on a very sensitive issue. Tackling this issue is like opening Pandora’s box…It has serious socio-economic, cultural, traditional, and psychological ramifications. No one seems to want to talk about this very vital matter. It is in fact a taboo. In my opinion and from my observations, a lot of character dysfunctions and unhappy marriages are but two obvious outcomes of living at home after a certain age. Unfortunately advocating independence for young men and women is always equated with lack of belonging, respect and love of family.
February 27, 2008 at 11:59 am |
Farah, in theory, yes, but my oldest is just 13. At this point, he may not ride in taxis alone, nor go to the mall without a parent supervising. As long as the kids are living with us, they will be students, and we are committed to making sure they get enough sleep. So, boy or girl, they will have the same curfew. We also feel that night is when there is more trouble going on, so why encourage late nights when they are more likely to be victim of bad folks and behaviour?
Tallouza, it is an honor to have you here. Thanks! I have recently discovered yours, too. Wise friend, and I completely agree! Early childhood, we control them and their environment. As they grow, they need training and guidance (which they may refuse) and the freedom to fail.
WOW, you think I opened Pandora’s Box? That could be, it seems a habit I have, since I began writing about sexual abuse here in Jordan.
I see your points, they are very well made. It is dangerous, perhaps, for me to provoke a longing in women for something that is not yet attainable in a culturally appropriate way. It seems there should be some form of living between the extremes I experienced, and my friends here do.
I strongly agree with the problems of marrying later, as both go into a marriage looking for someone to ‘parent’ them. A strong marriage cannot be built if wives take ‘mommy’ roles and husbands act like daddy. I would LOVE to see reduction in the amount of money a man has to produce to marry.
Maybe you could post about it someday? I’d love to hear your opinions.
February 27, 2008 at 7:32 pm |
Thanks Kinzi for your nice welcome. I feel extremely strong about this topic. You never know, I might just take your advice and write about it. We will then have two pandora’s boxes and one big blindly conservative community to deal with:-) By the way the question of independence and freedom applies equally to both males and females in our society. It is accentuated for females since they are more prone to ridiculous curfews and restrictions than males.
February 29, 2008 at 2:02 am |
The fuuny thing is here, Kinzi asked a question although she know the answer. We do not need to walk around it. Unlike ‘chickpea’s’, A decent muslim fmaily would not let their girls living our withut a proper reason. Honour and religion are very imprtnat in our culture as Muslims and Arab. It is not good idea to send hiddern messages in our articles for other reasons.
For educating you :
Islam cares for the dignity and honor of woman. Because of her weakness and vulnerability to being targeted by vile men, Islam is keen to close the doors to such situations by insisting that a woman should not travel long distances or stay away from home by herself unless she has taken adequate safeguards in order to ensure her own protection.
Answering your question, the European Council for Fatwa and Research states:
“1. The ruling concerning the woman’s taking permission on leaving home:
It is incumbent on the woman to inform her husband when she wants to go outside her home. However, the woman’s leaving her house to work, study or run errands for the home and the children does not require but a general consent on the part of the husband, and the wife does not have to ask permission every time. The matter is subject to common tradition. If the wife’s going out of the house is to visit a family not known to the husband, or if her going out entails staying overnight outside the house, the permission of the husband become necessary. If the husband refuses, the woman shall not go out. Muslim morality also requires that the husband should tell his wife if he wants to travel or stay overnight outside the house, for she has the right to know her husband’s whereabouts when he is absent from home.
2. The ruling regarding a woman’s travel without a mahram
This is primarily unlawful according to the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): “A woman who believes in Allah and the Hereafter shall not travel for (a period of) a day and a night unless accompanied by a mahram of hers.” (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Depending on this general text, some scholars are of the opinion that a woman should not travel by herself. Other scholars stipulate that her travel is permissible in the company of a trustworthy group of men or men and women. The prohibition conveyed by the hadith is justified by fearing that the woman may be exposed to mischief or temptation if she travels alone, bearing in mind that the dangers of travel were numerous in the past. Caliph `Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) allowed the Prophet’s wives (Mothers of the Believers) to travel for Hajj with a group of believers and sent with them `Uthman ibn `Affan and `Abdul-Rahman ibn `Auf.
In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to `Adiy ibn Hatim we read: “If you live long, you will see the woman travel from Hirah (a city in Iraq) to circumambulate the Ka`bah fearing none but Allah.” (Reported by al-Bukhari)
This confirms that the cause (of the prohibition) is fear (of insecurity). If security is guaranteed and fear is no more present, a woman may travel, particularly nowadays when travel has become easy, whether by air, train or coach. In all these means of transportation, company is available and security is realized for the Muslim woman.
This is in respect of the woman’s travel from one town to another or from one country to another and her arrival on the same day of her travel, whereupon she finds company providing security. If the journey requires staying overnight in a hotel on the way, or the journey is intended to perform a certain task that requires residence for a certain period, the woman, in this case, is supposed primarily to travel with a mahram of hers, or reside for the required period with a Muslim family in that country to avoid the likelihood of temptation or mischief the woman may face.
Finally, the Council urges parents to bring up their daughters and the husbands to educate their wives according to the guidance of Allah, for a Muslim woman will certainly follow the guidance of Allah steadfastly if she has received her due amount of education and instruction and has learned the rulings and rules of Shari`ah and has comprehended her religion.”
Do keep in touch. If you have any other question, don’t hesitate to write to us.
February 29, 2008 at 2:03 am |
The quoted article was from this site :
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546726
February 29, 2008 at 12:16 pm |
Ahmad, it is really not noble to say such things: “it is not good idea to send hiddern messages in our articles for other reasons.” “The fuuny thing is here, Kinzi asked a question although she know the answer.”
To impart ulterior motivation is a bit insulting, and condescending of you towards me.
Most of these women have been reading my blog for long enough to know your claims are unfounded. This is a place of discussion, which is why I asked the question, to give women a place to respond with all their opinions.
As a Christian, I also value the dignity and honor of a woman, and feel women can be trusted to make wise decisions for living without such stringent constraints. Yet, I see the error of my culture in not providing young women a safe place to mature and grow.
Thank you for joining the discussion, and providing the information and links to add another angle. It is welcome, informative, and I hope you will return another time. With more respect.
March 1, 2008 at 5:15 pm |
Ahmad…Flexing your muscles using the pretext that the issue is brought up by a non Moslem and non Arab is hitting below the belt and uncivilized, to say the least. Insinuating that the author has a hidden agenda in what she is proposing is typical of the sate of denial we find ourselves in at all levels, and not only the level of power relationships. It is typical of the approach of shooting the messenger instead of hearing out the message.
Let me tell you, I am a Moslem Arab woman and I agree with the premise of this blog post. Reinforcing the status quo and the exaggerated authority of patriarchs in our lives using Islam as a pretext is pathetic. Khadijah bint khuwaylid, the prophet’s first wife and the first Moslem, was an independent respectable businesswoman prior to marrying the prophet PBUH. She also happened to be living on her own. Could we at least agree that Sayyedah Khadijah is a good role model for Moslem women to follow…or do we still Have to report to the patriarchs in our society for legitimacy and seal of approval.
March 1, 2008 at 9:14 pm |
Anonymous, you are a woman of truth and grace. I appreciate your articulate and insightful response. In case Ahmad isn’t checking back, and his email address is legit, I’ll be forwarding it to him. God bless you!