Mona Eltahawy has had some great posts lately. This one, entitled “The Arab World’s Dirty Secret”, is worth a read. She recounts an Egyptian woman’s treatment of a Sudanese woman on the Metro.
I know for me, MommaBean and at least three Umms with Alabama connections, remnants of Civil-War era racism was something we grew up with in our homes, or our grandparents homes. In an ironic twist of the family tree, I had cotton-picking, white-trash, moon-shinin’ relatives in the South fighting Old Money Underground Railroad tee-totalers in the North during that war. The kounouz are working on a 1000 piece puzzle depicting America during the Civil War to help them get a grasp of the magnitude of the task Abraham Lincoln had in ridding America of the scourge of an economy that was slavery-dependant.
It was worth a war that tore families apart. It did, but it was the right thing to do to insure that the Constitution was applied to all Americans. We visited the Abraham Lincoln Museum in Springfield Illinois this summer, and it was an extremely sobering time. Looking at the portraits of Lincoln, and how visibly he aged in his years of presidency, revealed the heaviness of his mandate. One he died for.
Something new I learned on that trip: slavery was an equal-opportunity tool of all three monotheistic faiths. Jewish, Muslim and Christians were all involved in getting Black Africans to the New World. Shame on us all.
I think for us American mommy-bloggers in Amman, one of our biggest and most surprising areas of culture shock was the amount of racism that we have encountered in Jordan. We have experienced the other side of the coin of racism: being valued for our light skin color. It makes us cringe. Because of our connections to the South, to seeing a generation choose to change a wrong mentality, it is an even larger contrast when juxtaposed with the hospitality and generosity Arabs are known for.
I wonder, where are the Arab Abraham Lincolns? Where are the Jordanians who will stand against the regional scourges of racism in the economic hierarchy, corruption and even more close to heart, the ‘gender-ism’ of dis-honor killings? What is the ‘cotton’ that is standing in the way?
After watching the film “Amazing Grace”, I wrote this post asking: “Who will be the Arab William Wilburforces?” It really should be translated and required ‘viewing’ in schools. One man can take on establishment and win.
As a foreigner, I can’t really ask, but as an Arab, Mona can:
The racism I saw on the Cairo Metro has an echo in the Arab world at large where the suffering in Darfur goes ignored for two main reasons – firstly because its victims are black people and we don’t care about those with dark skins and secondly because those who are creating the misery in Darfur are not Americans or Israelis and we only pay attention when America and Israel are behaving badly.
International experts say that fighting in Darfur has so far killed 200,000 and driven 2.5 million from their homes and yet nobody cares in the Arab world.
My argument on the Cairo Metro was a also a reminder of our double standards. We love to cry “Islamophobia” when we talk about the way Muslim minorities are treated in the West and yet we never stop to consider how we treat minorities and the most vulnerable among us.
(Any comments demeaning Mona or me will be deleted. Constructive dissent and discussion is good, attack isn’t)
December 3, 2008 at 10:37 pm |
Oh kinzi… we’ve tackled this many times before. On how we view others, how we deal with our domestic and foreign workers. How we deal with people in need while they’re travelling through our airports. How we view anyone unlike us if they propose to our own daughters. And those just the external set of racism. We reflect that inward with sexism, pali-jordanian racism and even different tribes, families and regions of the country.
December 4, 2008 at 9:07 am |
QWaider, yes, we as bloggers have tackled, but gained no real yardage off-line. We have to keep bringing it up and understand that talking alone isn’t going to do it. We need to take some risks, challenge others to take risks, until the Omars and Tareqs (and Fadia’s) rise to the task!
December 4, 2008 at 10:03 am |
Well, I try my best to tackle it at home. My girls disdain those horrible ads for the whitening cream. How bad it is to tell millions of brown-skinned women that they can get no where without becoming whiter! What a shame. May God open the eyes and hearts of the world to accept everyone that He has created. We all have a task here on the earth and it truly doesn’t matter what color we are.
Believe me I am worried about the marriage thing which is sneaking up on me and my ‘baida’ girls. AHHHH! Complete strangers who come out of the woodwork and tackle you in the stores or even in the streets cause you speak English and your daughter is WHITE! Ahhh!
December 4, 2008 at 10:05 am |
Indeed, Kinzi. We have to look to our own eye and then try to help our neighbor remove his plank. I’m certain that each of us is guilty from time to time of casual disregard for others for whatever reason, race, gender, whatever. We need to learn to be less casual ourselves and to stand up for those who are ignored here – even those we don’t know.
December 4, 2008 at 12:02 pm |
She is very right. It is good that people are starting to point out such behaviour. We should learn that we cant ask for more tolerance towards us while being intolerante to anything different ourselves!
December 4, 2008 at 12:42 pm |
Observer, yea, and does she do a great job at it, I bet the woman on the train never forgets it.
One thing I have learned from you, and a post from El 3atal once, is that ‘tolerance’ is sometimes not enough, as it can carry a supremacist underpinning of ‘just putting up with someone different’. I am going to try and endeavor more to ‘loving well’, even as Jesus called us to love our enemies…to be able to ‘embrace’ different people even if I disagree with their manner of ‘different-ness’.
December 4, 2008 at 12:52 pm |
MB, yes, well said. I’ve realized that one of my ‘planks’ is occasionally enjoying the attention of being light colored…more with my daughter, enjoying people admiring her. I realized I am setting HER up to find value in something that that should not be a source of value or identity. Casual regard is a GREAT term for it…a good warning, recognize it whereever it pops up (ooops, God is reminding me AS I TYPE…of some of those places)
Um Omar, oh wow, you don’t even GET to be ‘casual’ about it. It will be more and more in your face the older the girls get, and more and more of a conversation with the girls. Whow nellie, I will be praying for you. Good for your daughters to be able to pick out the face creams as an example(bumper sticker: “Samra is beautiful!”)…I think too, of the mandatory ‘nose job’ so many Ammani girls get.
December 4, 2008 at 2:00 pm |
Kinz, are nose jobs popular? How sad. Then again, they’re likely just as popular in the US in some localities. I hadn’t really thought about expressing out loud how troubling the attention to the Beans because of their looks is. Now I’ll definitely do that. Of course, since they look so different, we constantly have the opporunity to talk about the beauty of differences and the beauty of our friends…
December 4, 2008 at 5:26 pm |
by the way, Mona El Tahawy is a neocon pen for hire. Her views mirror those of William Kristol and Norman Podhoretz on Arabs and Mideast foreign policy. That’s her only claim to fame. Very few Arabs consider neo-cons to be sincere pro-democracy or pro-human rights reformists. but neocons are are good to Arabs who champion their anti-Arab agenda. That’s why Mona El Tahawy is constantly begin invited by them to conferences and seminars. She speaks for them not for us. So if you want to quote someone to rally the Arab troops, try someone who is less offensive to us. This is like quoting zionist anti-Arab Nathan Sharansky giving us lectures on human rights. i have a soft spot for you kinzi, but you are too shallow and too resistant to comprehend the pressing issues Arabs are facing on a daily basis such as repression, poverty, declining education, rise in cancer and diabetes and heart problems and shortening life span. And the number one killer…drum roll….the Americans. Yes Kinzi, your people are the number one plague upon the Arabs killings and impoverishing and destabilizing far more countries and supporting repressive regimes that cause most of our problems. Then you find in your heart to lecture us on racism and other social ills. All it takes is phone call from Bush or Obama to our guys to threaten to cut aide if honor killing laws are not repelled. So go tell your president who is supporting some of the most repressive regimes of the 21st century to back off. Then if we fail to live up to your expectations you can come and give us a lecture and i will be the first to listen.
December 4, 2008 at 6:47 pm |
Wonderful post, I think Arabs need to take a closer look at their own racism and launch campaigns and programs to do something about it. Before we fix this, it is so hard to argue against islamophobia and racism against Arabs elsewhere in the world, when Arabs themselves can be very racist.
I think the ‘nose job’ is equivalent to the whitening cream, because generally speaking women alter their noses to look more like a white person’s nose. What’s wrong with Arabic noses?
December 5, 2008 at 10:04 am |
Tania, thanks for remaining somewhat constructive in your comment, and I always appreciate folks who have a softspot for me and my rambling.
I’ve asked Mona to respond herself, we’ll see if she does.
As far as being shallow, well, it’s true especially as far as my shallow understanding of the whole region and it’s conflicts. BUT, I have a depth of understanding of human behavior which is relatively the same whether East or West. Especially having lived outside of the US for twenty years.
Being a mom puts me solidly in a lecturing role, and dealing with conflicts where each side has a piece of truth they are promoting
while conveniently ignoring the truths the other side is complaining about. That is why I read Daily Kos AND Drudge Report, CNN AND Al Jazeera. It was interesting to read KabobFest’s post juxtaposed with a right-wing blogger on William Kristol’s latest.
I also understand that the Arab world, and Muslim world, are not monoliths. You seem to be falling into the ‘us/them’ trap that most Westerners do. Seeing responses here, the fact that Mona is even ON itoot, and comments on her blog post and the recent mention on GV (http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/12/05/egypt-dirty-sexy-secrets/ ) tell me there are at least ten Arabs who disagree with you.
I’m not going to buy the “America is the root of all evil” line. It is the ‘cool’ and politically correct opinion world-wide, I know that well. But, I can’t think of many countries, outside of Denmark and Australia, that have clean enough hands to point too many fingers. In other writing and speaking I do with Americans as an audience, I will call them to account to think/act more deeply about our role and change (hey, don’t you believe Obama is answer to it all?).
What I have done, and will continue to do, out of LOVE and RESPECT for the Arab world, is continue to call it into account for living in denial, blame-shifting and handwringing-inaction about degrees of ‘neighborhood bullies’ instead of owning the vast mishandling of resources, opportunities and lack of following the wisdom of good leadership. Maybe you don’t appreciate this form of mommy-tough-love, but those who hold contempt and hate for this region don’t bother.
Tania, you are obviously an intelligent, well-read and passionate woman. Someone who has paid the price for bad/failed US foreign policy at some point. People like you are a MAJOR part of the answer. I am a minor player, if at all. YOU will be the Lincolns and Wilberforces of your generation. YOU matter, I don’t.
So as a lecturing mom, I want to encourage you to listen to the neo-con Monas and shallow American moms, and other Arab voices you disagree with rather than resist the truths that are there. It will broaden your ability to influence. And I will be listening to see what I can/need to learn from you.
December 5, 2008 at 2:16 pm |
MB, I think the plastic surgery thing is a very small segment of the population, esp. compared to Orange County (where it has replaced the BMW as a Sweet 16 Gift). It is evident when one peruses Layalina, when little button-nose bride is between gorgeously-Arab proportioned nosed parents. But, as Haifa and Nancy go…
DP, I quite like the Arab nose. My husband has one, and even tho he has European roots, is at times mistaken for an Arab as a result. LOL, there isn’t even such a thing as a ‘white person’s nose’, because the white people that have these noses got them through plastic surgery too! Thanks for the insight with racism…it is present everywhere and each culture needs to deal with their own brand of it. You and your hubby have certainly dealt with the religious aspect of oppression, from both sides!
December 5, 2008 at 4:09 pm |
>>> I’m not going to buy the “America is the root of all evil” line. It is the ‘cool’ and politically correct opinion world-wide,
WOW! more proof you are a disingenuous person. how can you say that? do you think this is some cute intellectual argument people peddle in their free cafe time?
have you no sense of right and wrong?
one time you write off the mass murder you people committed in iraq and afghanistan as “smokescreen” and now you dismiss America’s unconditional support for some of the world’s most corrupt and/or violently despotic rulers as being “politically correct”?
and to top it all off you quote form Mona Tahawy the most virulent Arab neocon to motivate your Arab readers into action?
YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
December 5, 2008 at 6:30 pm |
Babylonian, can I start off by saying I am sorry. I had no intention here (nor at MB’s blog) of starting a fire-storm. I have really made you mad and I am sorry for triggering that. Another blogger challenged me to write about politics more often, and I think I am going to go bite his head off now for the suggestion.
These are the TWO things you have read me write about Iraq in my last four years on-line. Too bad you missed most of what I had to write. Too bad you missed out on the history of my connectedness to Iraqis.
I’m not even sure how much I am obliged to explain myself, because with people like you, it doesn’t matter because it doesn’t fit the mold, and no amount of words to the contrary will change your mind. YOU are the one who imputed on me that I have no empathy toward the Iraqi people, based on your own biases.
I could have some of my Iraqi friends tell you. But I’m not sure you would believe them anyway.
I learned about Mona Eltahaway from Arab bloggers. I had never heard anything negative about her until my last post about her. I’ve also learned about Edward Said and Mahmoud Darwish, is that more helpful for you?
I generally don’t link to someone I know is going to infuriate my readers in advance, I want to provoke discussion, not RAGE. AND…something that infuriates them probably doesn’t make ME happy, either. This particular post of hers was on a topic several of us have written about recently, it is not a cart-blanche for all Mona’s opinions.
The ’smokescreen’ comment was not a devaluation of the devastation of the Iraqi people, nor a pass to my government for the incredible, unbelievable wrong done in the name or whyever they now say they did it. It was a commentary on how OFTEN blame-shifting pops up when an Arab gets upset that a ‘ferner points out the local junk.
I don’t expect a ’sorry’ every time some whacko kills in the name of their religion. Condemnation is good, but I don’t blame every Muslim for every crime a Muslim commits.
When I meet a new person, and am asked ‘where are you from’, I say “Sam7iini, Amerkiyya”. Shall I begin every new post that way?
I’m not trying to be CUTE. I’m pointing out that HUMAN BEINGS at their worst, loving their stuff more than other humans, are the root of all evil. Whether Abu Ghraib US soldiers, last centuries slave traders, so-called Muslims who slash the necks of journalists, Israeli soldiers who pick off Palestinian 5 year olds with head shots.
And RACISM as I see it, is the seed of such evil. PLUCK IT OUT and you can learn a lesson from America without repeating her SIN.
December 5, 2008 at 6:50 pm |
From Mona:
“Kinzi – thanks for linking to me on your blog. You answered that person well and I have nothing to add. I wrote this piece for an Egyptian and a Qatari paper and I will not get into an arm wrestling match over who’s more Arab.
Your interlocuter who sees neocons everywhere will have a hard time with Obama in office – with neocons totally discredited who will she blame then?”
December 5, 2008 at 7:13 pm |
So, what if she had any specific relations in the past or still with any neo-con in any capacity? Does this make the POINT she is making about how EVERYONE appears to be racist even the people who claim to be suffering from this racism?
Without looking much into the character of Mona, I can say, she’s right on the money and what she says is completely authentic and true. We suffer from it EVERY SINGLE DAY in the Arab world.
Now changing these point to attack Kinzi as well isn’t going to achieve anything either. Why can’t we focus on the point being presented and forget the people? Or is that TOO MUCH for troll brains?
For people who think we’re immune from racism, think again. Would you marry your daughter to an Indian? To an Egyptian? Or to even your Palestinian cousin? Many would say NO and justify it with every possible stupidity that comes to their immature mind.
Not so long ago, the Jordanian blogosphere was split of the treatment of Iraqi’s in Jordan. Worse yet, some were even bragging their hate to Iraqis, Blacks and just about everyone who’re not like them
I think it’s clear that in the dungeons of many people’s minds there are dark secrets and dark areas where racism is alive and well. It’s natural to have these thoughts. But for a little girl like in Mona’s story, it should have been the mother who stopped her from annoying the Sudanese girl and taught her the value of equality and respect to everyone. But I guess, the mother wasn’t even in a position to understand what that means either way.
December 5, 2008 at 7:23 pm |
Qwaider, thank you so much for your comment. There are times I wonder if I crossed some red line unwittingly and need a Jordanian who KNOWS to correct me. As has happened before, and will happen again, I am sure
December 6, 2008 at 7:49 am |
Mona added this as a comment on her blog:
“It’s VERY important to me that you make it clear I didn’t want to add anything to what you wrote. I will not grace her denial and defamation with a response.
It’s too easy to brush me off by calling me a “neo-con” just because I criticise something she denies.
An Egyptian man wrote to tell me I should leave “his” Egypt alone and stop writing things for “dirty American money” even though I made it clear this was written for Arabic papers.
That’s what those in denial do – they accuse you of being “neocon”, “Zionist”, whatever they think will shut you up.
Some of us refuse to shut up.”
(I realized that in my desire to defend myself, I negated my last sentence and allowed commenters to demean the one I was quoting. I’ll have to get over that tendency for the honor of others
)
December 6, 2008 at 9:33 am |
Quwider, two issues:
1) your understanding of racism is a most shallow. The choice of marriage is not racism. You have picked the most absurd definition of racism. If you use marriage as a barometer for racism, you would have condemned 99% of humanity. People are free to decide whom they are attracted to. Racism only exists as a a problem when one group has power while another group has none. This power could be economic or political or physical. Meaning, if your racism compels you to deny someone a job because he is of an ethnic group or race you dislike, then you have committed an immoral and in most countries an illegal act. That’s an example of racism. If you deprive someone of their life or property because they don’t belong to your race or ethnic group (Jews vs Arabs in Palestine) then you are racist. If you commit physical violence against someone of another ethnic group because you think they are less worthy of your system of justice and human rights and because you are entitled to their wealth (eg Americans in Iraq and Whites in Africa and Arab world during colonialism) then you are a racist. You must have power to cause harm to be a racist. But marriage choices are not indicators of racism. So please read more before your pontificate.
2) there is no such thing as “do as I say but not as I do.” That’s called hypocrisy. Of course the record of the preacher does matter. in this Mona el Tahawy. It’s totally absurd of you to suggest that a good advice redeems a bad preacher. If that’s the case, then we should close an eye on all the corrupt preachers who were caught molesting children, so long as their sunday sermon sounds good. The credibility of the reformer has everything to do with the message of reform. Why do you think Bush failed to promote democracy and human rights in the Arab world. because his actions went against both. he supported corrupt and bloody despots who protected US and Israel’s interests and toppled or threatened those who did not, irrespective of their human right records. So you are wrong Quweider. It does matter what Mona el Tahawy represents and what are her views are. It’s very stupid to suggest that it does not matter who is preaching so long as their message sounds good.
December 6, 2008 at 10:50 am |
Nixon: “I AM NOT A CROOK”
Olmert: “I AM NOT CORRUPT”
Mona : “I AM NOT A NEOCON”
Kinzi, it does not matter what Mona Eltahawy thinks of herself. Her views and the organizations she associates with openly are what matters. She can claim to be a liberal all she wants, but I have yet to meet a liberal who calls Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a dictators and attacks him. She does, along with dozens of neocons and others who work for the Bush administration. Chavez might be a blowhard, but he was elected by his people. Now why in the world would someone like Mona El Eltahawy go out of her way to call Chavez all sorts of names and why would she attack a socialist president if she were not a rightwing neocon? Why? He defends democracy. he defends women’s rights. He defends equality. Isn’t that what Mona claims to want from Arabs and their dictators in her articles? Why pick on a guy far removed from the Arab world who stands for all the things she demands of Arabs? I will tell you why. Because neocons dislike Chavez. He is anti-imperialist. Mone has benefited from the neocons and their imperialist agenda, which needs someone to tell Americans how bad Arabs are to give justifications for the Americans to “save” us and to bring us democracy whenever there is a need to topple an Arab regime or to loot Arab oil. Money…opps…Mona is useful to them. We know we have problems in the Arab world and we read all about them from Amnesty and Human Rights Watch and a few credible western groups. We read them everyday in the Arab press and we don’t need someone who is in cahoot with bloody neoconservatives to tell us what’s wrong with us. Where is her articles about US support for Arab despots? Where are her articles about the violence Arab women suffer at the hands of American males in Iraq? She knows who pays her rent. Do a search in Google on events Mona is invited to regularly and check the organizations and people that invite her. Most have anti-Arab records.
Time to Redefine “Leftist”
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/mona_eltahawy/2007/12/chavez_defeat_means_its_time_t.html
And by the way, when someone does not want to “dignify” a comment, it means they have no way to defend against it. She played victim and walked away. Pathetic. And you call that courage? Fact is, neocons were never big on debates. They were big on monologues. That’s why they failed in the end. Ideologues who do not subject their ideas to cross examination and learn from the other side’s point of view, are almost always doomed to fail.
December 6, 2008 at 11:59 am |
What gives your definition any value more than any other person’s definition of racism?
Isn’t racism in it’s purist form, “Viewing others as being inferior based on their sex, race, color, ethnicity”?
Then, welcome to the Arab world, We have ALL OF THE ABOVE and more! We view everyone to be inferior
I’m not a big fan of Mona, but I see her point in this specific article, and I find it to be spot on.
Now, since I know who you are, would you mind telling me why are you using an alias? I thought you had more substance than that. But I gotta go back to my “disappointments”
By the way, throwing words like “Stupid” when in fact YOU are the one who is just twisting the whole matter just to support your own personal view of this whole matter doesn’t make your point clearer. It shows how weak your argument is and how narrow minded you really are.
December 6, 2008 at 12:28 pm |
14 years ago when I was being told about Islam (given dawah) and the Muslim world, the person (Muslim) I was talking to INSISTED that Muslims did not have the problem of racism. The Muslim world was nothing like America. America was evil and irredeemable whereas the Muslim world could not even conceive of a color problem. This was also promoted in the Autobiography of Malcolm X as well.
Even after becoming Muslim, I was told this several more times. However my experiences told me something entirely different. However, I found people to be in extreme denial and if one called it out, then their loyalty was immediately called into question – just as Ms Eltahawy’s is.
Because Mona points out that racism exists in her country, suddenly she is a “neo-con” and such non-sense. I have seen this all too often and it is silly. The lack of desire to do any introspection in the Muslim world is sickening to me
December 6, 2008 at 12:54 pm |
Qwider, you have a few talking points that you keep repeating like a broken record. that’s how shallow you are. had you paid attention to what has been written you will read what I said:
“We know we have problems in the Arab world and we read all about them from Amnesty and Human Rights Watch and a few credible western groups. We read them everyday in the Arab press and we don’t need someone who is in cahoot with bloody neoconservatives to tell us what’s wrong with us.”
But it seems reading is not your strongest assets since it requires comprehension and not insults which comes easy to you.
and as for racism, this is NOT my definition and it’s NOT a purist definition. If it were purist, Martin Luther King Jr. would not have been killed trying to fight it. You must cause harm to be a racist. Are you saying every Swede who is not married to an African is anti-black racist? That’s 99% of Swedes. And since Swedes are racist by your definition, than we are all in deep trouble. You need to get over the fact you are shallow. Just deal with it instead of trying to pass sweeping generalization upon Arabs that also apply to all of humanity.
So my advice to you try reading and comprehending. There is a body of literature on racism and I advice you to do some basic research before mouthing off.
December 6, 2008 at 1:13 pm |
Bambli, it is becoming obvious who is the one who is shallow here. I will excuse this as youthful immaturity toward myself, but not toward my readers. As a mother, I have to step in and apply some consequences.
You are intelligent, and have read much, but you have filled your mind with one side of an opinion to the point there cannot be another definition other than yours. You don’t have the life experience to see this yet, which is why you resort to undercutting slams, name-calling and definition-tweaking with anyone who doesn’t think exactly like you do.
Your self-righteousness and contempt reveal what generation you are from. It also reveals pain of soul which lashes out at anyone to keep people from hurting you further. Your method of self-protection will eventually isolate you further and make you a bitter, old and angry person. Who knows, maybe you are already older, but if so, it makes me sad for you.
Until you can come back with an apology, I am going to block further comments from you.
December 6, 2008 at 1:23 pm |
Tariq, thanks so much for coming over and offering your very valid viewpoint. I am so sorry this was/is your experience. May God use you to help change others by your example and words.
Qwaider, thanks again. By tackling the topic in this way, every time, there is someone reading the subject somewhere who ‘gets it’ and comes away with a different viewpoint. I’m sure that happened through this post, even if that person is not Bambli this time.
December 6, 2008 at 1:24 pm |
i could not help but note how Qweider uses marriage as proof of arab racism but he is married to someone like him an arab with light skin…not a black or asian or dark-skinned arab. Q, how can you preach to arabs when you are in violation of your own litmus test?
December 6, 2008 at 1:34 pm |
Dave, Qwaider’s choice of mate had more to do with her INTELLIGENCE than her WHITENESS. He looked in many places for a suitable mate, and skin-color was much less an issue than compatibility. Do you know Mai?
Skin color wasn’t a ‘litmus test’ for him, unless you saw a post of his I missed. But it IS here in Jordan. I have people asking for my SIX YEAR OLD daughter’s name promised in their family book so their son won’t get stuck with a SAMRA girl. No qualms about it! Go read white, American Muslim Um Omar’s comment above.
December 6, 2008 at 1:39 pm |
Babili, you have to try harder than that to be civil if you want your comments approved.
December 6, 2008 at 6:13 pm |
Is it not possible to distil the matter down to the bare essentials? The fact – saddening as it is – is that racism is endemic, regardless of the society, period, or faith pervasive.
Being an utter Heinz 57, I have experienced less than desirable behaviour on both sides: in Britain, I have been patronised and denied jobs; in Jordan, I have had nefarious men lunge at me while muttering rusty Russian phrases in the streets. These, however, are but trifles compared to the experience of the Sudanese girl featured in Mona’s post.
Similar to Tariq Nelson, I have been frequently told that Islam is a religion that sees not colour, so united is it in its faith. It is a beautiful notion, for a beautiful religion, but strive as we might we will always be flawed humans, which is why such dastardly mind-sets pervade throughout humankind’s history, and doubtless, into our future.
Kinzi and Mona are right: in an ideal world, we can all intervene, turn towards the fracas and enlighten on the finer points of tolerance and kindness.
To be realistic however, we would be fighting a losing battle – such espousals fall easy prey to those who feel it is the stance of finger-pointing do-gooders.
Being a secret optimist, however, I support their view: standing up and speaking out demonstrates that not all Egyptians (or Britons, etc.) are so diabolically bad-mannered.
Ultimately, racism needs to be challenged on a global level: from domestic divides (as in the case of Italy and Lebanon), to global cyncism (You-are-American-therefore-you-endorse-Bush).
There is good and bad in all nationalities, countries, and faiths: we just have to pick our battles and ensure that the good outnumber the bad.
December 6, 2008 at 11:21 pm |
Kinzi,
Salam, Tariq!
Still working on sorting all of this out. (Who is the neo-con, who is the Big Bad Zionist Wolf, who is a leftist-socialist in sheep’s clothing, etc.) I did see, however, that Mr. Tariq Nelson has visited your blog. He’s a welcome breath of fresh insight, for sure.
I think the best thing for you to do (instead of fretting) is just realize how cool it is that people have an opinion one way or another regarding what you have to say. We all have much to learn.
December 7, 2008 at 12:49 am |
I think it’s funny when some people label Muslims as racists when considering that over 95% of Muslims are colored, poor people. If you need to hate Muslims, find another excuse for your hatred.
December 7, 2008 at 10:02 am |
Layla: “Is it not possible to distil the matter down to the bare essentials? The fact – saddening as it is – is that racism is endemic, regardless of the society, period, or faith pervasive.” THANK YOU. Exactly. I’ll try and tone down the do-gooder finger-pointing, too, while remaining optimisitic.
Umm Farouq, thanks so much for the convo yesterday, it did end a bunch of my fretting and added great perspective. I hope you’ll blog about some of what we covered. I appreciated Tariq’s addition too, refreshing breezes come from surprising places! Seriously, all that labeling was hard to sift through, wasn’t it?
Tanya, I didn’t label Muslims as racists: I know very well Islam is a religion, not a race. I said ‘Arabs’, and I was using my own racist background as a springboard to do so, ‘takes one to know one’, ya know? And, fyi…I have had poor, colored Indonesian muhajabi housemaids refuse to serve me and call me ‘kuffar’ at kid’s birthday parties…waaaah. As for hating Muslims, well, that isn’t even worth a response. Duh.
Babli, in spite of not liking your approach or labeling tendencies, don’t think you haven’t caused me something to think about all day. I talked to several people for perspective, including a two hour convo with my Palestinian Muslim landlord. But…he agreed with me on the ‘racism’ definition and then proceeded to tell me all about how EUROPE has quietly damaged Middle Eastern interests and smugly stand by blaming America for it all. I will read that Time link, too.
December 7, 2008 at 10:35 am |
Kinzi, Arabs are colored people too and they are overwhelmingly poor too. the rich gulf Arabs accounts for less than 5% of total Arab population. Don’t tell me an Arab walking down the street on 16th Pennsylvania Avenue or about to board a Delta airliner in JFK airport will be mistaken for an anglo saxon. so muslim or arab same argument applies. fact is by your definition of racism, even the nice oppressed people of Tibet are racist. They don’t like foreigners and they are a closed society that does not marry outside their ethnic club. same applies for other ethnic groups. if you want to fish for flaws in people of the developing world to feel superior you will find plenty. even the poor Aborigines and native americans who have suffered unspeakable genocide at the hands of white people can be called racist by your definition. you must have power over others and you must use that power to cause harm to others not like you to be called a racist. the most damning racism comes from those who claim to be civilized but don’t hesitate to commit genocide in the name of civilization e.g. you the Americans, the Israelis, and white Europeans in general. How come the only think Americans seem to be obsessed with in the Arab world is to point out our flaws no matter how minor when compared to your crimes against humanity. Fact is, no American or Brit has the right to give Arabs a lecture. Not after all what you have done to retard our progress from colonialism to supporting corrupt, violent Arab despots who have caused the greatest harm to our national development. All for the sake of oil and Israel.
December 7, 2008 at 10:43 am |
Tanya B, thanks for coming back. I need to think about your comment, and have guests coming, so will try and get back to you later tonight.
December 7, 2008 at 4:53 pm |
@ Kinziblogs
You are welcome.
@ Umm Farooq
Salaam to you as well. Thanks for the kind words
December 7, 2008 at 9:17 pm |
Babli,
You must have power to cause harm to be a racist.
That’s absurd. You are confusing the text of civil rights laws with human personality traits. You have to have the power to do harm to be convicted of violating somebody’s civil rights, because there is simply no method of quantifying the degree to which somebody has been harmed by racism other than when their actual rights have been violated. That doesn’t mean that casual racism isn’t harmful, it only means it isn’t illegal. I can call you names and insult your ancestry all I want right here on this blog, and nobody can do anything (legally) about it. I could do the same thing in person. That’s because I’m not in a position of authority over you. Are you saying that means it is impossible for me to be a racist? That’s silly. And then if you worked for me as an employee, suddenly I can be a racist?
But marriage choices are not indicators of racism. So please read more before your pontificate.
I’m a white guy who married a Chinese woman, and I’m here to tell you that’s crap. I expected a lot of grief from my family over that because there ARE some racists in my family (thankfully they were very nice about it), and I was prepared to deal with it. I can’t think of any better indication of a racist family than one that refuses to allow their son or daughter to marry the person they love, out of simple bigotry.
Anyway, moving on…
She can claim to be a liberal all she wants, but I have yet to meet a liberal who calls Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a dictators and attacks him.
I’m guessing you’ve never met a real liberal. Not surprising, judging by your illiberal commentary here. Chavez *is* a dictator. Nobody who values human freedom (as all liberals do) would claim otherwise. And weren’t you just condemning the US for siding with Arab dictators? Now, you side with a Latin American dictator? Why? Because he’s not Arab? And because he’s a socialist/communist? So you like socialists better than fascists? So it’s OK to be a communist dictator, eh? Americans like fascists better than communists, so how come it’s so bad for us to make the same choice (only in reverse) that you just made?
Talk about hypocrisy…
December 7, 2008 at 9:33 pm |
Tanya, the root of our issue here based on our definitions of racism, and your addition to it that there must be a power differential involved: “you must have power over others and you must use that power to cause harm to others not like you to be called a racist.”
I don’t believe that. I believe it has it’s roots in every human heart, whether the oppressed minority or the oppressor supremicist. Being in power certainly gives advantage to the oppressor.
As far as the rest of your comment, you have heard from whites, blacks, Arabs, Muslims, Americans, Jordanians and Brits in addition to me. They agree. So maybe it is you who need to look at the addendum to your definition again?
We would also all agree to the atrocities you listed and who is responsible, speaking for myself. Have you ever wondered why I live in here, but to help do something small to try and right those wrongs?
But that doesn’t mean I will stop speaking, or blogging. Funny, you say I have no right to lecture, but I am invited to speak to groups regularly all over Jordan, and have invitations to Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Egypt, Palestine. It must be because I am so obsessed with pointing out ‘minor flaws’.
I hope that you will find your voice to become a positive contributor to the progress we all desire for the Arab world.
December 7, 2008 at 9:36 pm |
Tanya,
Kinzi, Arabs are colored people too and they are overwhelmingly poor too.
I think you need to work on your understanding of racism. I just mentioned my Chinese ex-wife. Before she met me, she went out on a date with a black guy once. Her parents (who don’t speak English, by the way) wouldn’t let her in the house when she got back from the date. She had to move in with her Aunt for 2 weeks before she got it worked out with her folks. Her parents loved the hell out of me, though. Really, I could do no wrong. I honestly think they believe that whites are superior to Chinese… I can’t think of any other explanation for the way they treated me like a king.
Do you understand the point I’m trying to make? Your baseline assertion that (in essence) only whites of European background can be racist is in itself *extremely* racist. Not to mention, extremely wrong. If that were true there wouldn’t be any ethnic cleansing in “brown” parts of the world, would there?
December 7, 2008 at 9:46 pm |
Craig, surprise to see you here, welcome back and thanks for your comments. I really don’t know a thing about Chavez, so thanks for stepping in.
I am beginning to think Babli and Tanya are related.
December 8, 2008 at 9:52 am |
Craig, as for your statement that “Chavez *is* a dictator” now that’s the mother of all American right wing absurdities. your rejection of the Venezuelan democratic process, despite all evidence to the contrary, is deeply disturbing and does reflect a typical right wing American mentality in every sense of the word. You deny facts that don’t suit your ideological agenda. This gives you plenty of room to cause great harm to others who don’t do America’s dirty work, but you do it in the name of democracy.
Here is a guy, Chavez, who was elected under the watchful eyes of international monitors, including Jimmy Carter, who vouched for the fairness of the elections. Yet you still call him a dictator. Why? Because that gives you the flexibility to kill innocents in Venezuela with the help of CIA or Saudi funded mercenaries or to invade in the name of bringing democracy to Venezuela. It’s the same in Iran. Despite the fact Ahmadinajad is democratically elected, Americans keep insisting he is a dictator. I guess this is consistent with your foreign policy. Dictators who do your dirty work are “moderates” who are taking steps towards “democratic reforms” while the democratically elected who don’t do your dirty work are dictators that are fair game to topple and destablize.
Remember the 1973 CIA-orchestrated Chilean coup d’état which toppled and killed democratically elected Salvador Allende and installed a US puppet and the most violent dictator of South America, General Pinochet?
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/19/us.cia.chile.ap
Remember the CIA overthrow of democratically elected Iranian Mohammed Mosaddeq and brought the puppet Shah of Iran?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
And the list goes on and on including oil-rich Arab countries, Indonesia, Pakistan, most African countries, … Your selective memory is frighting. You never learn from history because you don’t want to and you don’t have to. You just kill so long as you can believe it’s for “democracy.” Sort of like the Inquisition which killed thousands of innocents in the name of Jesus.
As for your views on racism, your typical right wing American denial of your own country’s historical role in retarding democracy and liberalism throughout the world and in promoting ethnic and sectarian strife as in Iraq makes you the least credible person form the least credible country on earth to speak about tolerance and democracy. Fact is much of the intolerance around the world is funded by America and British pursuits of destabilizing this or that country. In Iraq, you have fostered so much sectarian and ethnic strife after you invaded Iraq between Arabs and Kurds and between Sunnis and Shiites. and it paid handsome dividends for you with the latest security deal in Iraq. Now the Iraqis are so afraid of each other and hate each other with such intensity they need you to keep the peace. Such sectarian and ethnic violence was unheard of under the old Iraqi regime which you have toppled for oil (aka democracy). That’s what the Whites did in Africa and the third world in general. and until the present ,we keep suffering from the consequences of White man’s divide and conquer policies. Then you come to preach to us about racism and tolerance. I don’t have any kind words for you.
December 8, 2008 at 2:11 pm |
Kinzi, thanks for the warm “welcome back”! Just a drive-by, I’m trying to stay off the blogs
Saleem, your biased world-view is showing. Just so you know! You’re going to have to do better than that if you want a serious response from me. You probably don’t, I’m guessing. You just like to lash out at people, right?
December 8, 2008 at 5:31 pm |
lash out? it’s called denial when being confronted with your wrongful acts and your hypocrisy? you want to play executioner and savior at the same time. and when someone objects you cry foul? fact is you can’t even own up to thing you did and you show no remorse whatsoever. that’s dangerous. you hear no evil when it comes from your own folks, you see no evil so long as you are the one committing it. and you speak aginst no evil so long as it’s being committed by you. that’s the quentessintial anti-social personality. You need to see a psychiatrist and I am not one.
truth is, i was not even talking to you. that’s pointless. the only thing i can do is to remind naive Arabs out there who forget what you truly represent and how you can never change your nature because power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. and for sometimes now you had absolute power over so many people and nations. and unless you are broken, your corruption will never cease. and that means more suffering for others.
December 8, 2008 at 8:09 pm |
Craig, I have such poor memory I can’t even remember which blog I read your comments on, maybe Natasha? Wise to stay off blogs, especially posts like this
My brother married an ethnically Chinese woman. We found out just how tolerant of other ethnicities my parents really were…and that in spite of all their preaching about black equality, they wanted little blonde grandbabies and gave my sis-in-law a really bad time when they were drunk. The joke was, she was a generation MORE ‘American’ than we were, her father several dozen steps up the social and success ladder, and her parents were much more gracious than ours.
Salim, LL, Babli, I am getting confused…are you ALL different people who just chose this post to share a common theme? Or are you changing names? Do you have blogs where we can exchange ideas on a regular basis and learn from applying history to current events? You aren’t leaving real email addresses.
LL, welcome, I guess, if you are a really new visitor. It seems your goal is to use my blog to say:
“the only thing i can do is to remind naive Arabs out there who forget what you truly represent and how you can never change your nature”.
Please go start your own blog and let’s talk about change!
Saleem, thank you for the history lesson. I will remind you of something I already wrote:
“We would also all agree to the atrocities you listed and who is responsible, speaking for myself.”
NOW, I am going to close this post to comments to those I don’t ‘know’. Plenty of people in the Jordanian blogosphere share portions of your opinions, opposite opinions to mine, and on the basis of ‘knowing’ and ‘being known’ we DO influence and change one another’s views.
So if you are another Jordanian blogger, just fess up and shed the cover-up. I can handle your anger
If you are a drive-by (other than Craig), I won’t approve any further long comments that take more thought than I can give. Thanks.
December 8, 2008 at 11:50 pm |
You know, it’ so frustrating to keep repeating things “like a broken record” and yet people don’t seem to understand the very simple point being made
Now kids, repeat after me:
Racism is:”the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race” Source
Racial discrimination according to the UN is:”any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life”(source)
Do we need to say more? I’m not trying remotely to be shallow, perhaps some people who are in fact single-track-minded and really shallow are unable to see anything different than their own noses. And lacking the basic level of respectful discussion to go around attacking and insulting people.
And regarding my {{{{PERSONAL}}}} choice in marriage, I married the woman I loved. Not the woman that matched my color palette. I have written volumes on women, men and women, marriage and not ONCE have I even mentioned race or color. As long as she’s of the human race that is (that’s where I draw the line, no green chicks, thank you)
I also have allergies towards stupidity, you can call that racism against the less fortunate intellectually, but sorry, I can’t help it.
-Now back to Mona
We really have no hope for a better future if we can not look at the issues we have in complete isolation of WHO is informing us of them. In fact, that’s the greatest sign of immaturity; not being able to distinguish between the message and the bearer.
December 8, 2008 at 11:53 pm |
[...] Mona E on Arab Racism Mona Eltahawy has had some great posts lately. This one, entitled “The Arab World’s Dirty Secret”, is worth a read. She recounts an Egyptian woman’s treatment of a Sudanese woman Read More… [...]
December 9, 2008 at 9:21 am |
“I married the woman I loved.”
Right. You come to Jordan and you find a fair-skinned Arab women with a Hijab and magically you fall in love with her. Funny how in your years in the US you never fell in love with a Black or Hispanic or Asian woman. That says volumes about your racist instincts. Fact is, most racism is not premeditated. People don’t go to work saying today, I will discriminate against a woman or someone who is black or asian. But they do it. That’s why we have sensitivyt training. Because most racism is knee-jerk. So is yours. and here, I am going by your standard.
“We really have no hope for a better future if we can not look at the issues we have in complete isolation of WHO is informing us of them”
(Safi, I deleted this part of your comment)
December 9, 2008 at 9:25 am |
Give us one article where Mona just focuses on the plight of Arab women who suffer violence at the hands of American men in Iraq. Tens of thousands of women were killed, injured, widows, or have been impoverished by US males in Iraq. Same for Arab women in Palestine. Same for Atab women in Lebanon and the successive Israeli invasions.
December 9, 2008 at 11:14 am |
Safi, sigh, welcome to kinziblogs. I hope you enjoy your visit and come back every day.
lol, Qwaider met his future wife on-line through blogging, in the realm of IDEAS and OPINIONS BEFORE SEEING HER. She is an Arab/American. His mosque in the US is an ethnically diverse place, it seems a very good community, but he wasn’t just looking for a any old ‘good little Muslim wife’, like SO many Jordanians come to Jordan looking for. If he had found love, brains and compatability in a samra girl he would’ve married her.
QWAIDER’S MARRIAGE IS AN OFF LIMIT TOPIC AS OF NOW
Safi, those are excellent topics I hope Mona will cover some day, if she hasn’t already. Have you actually checked her archives to make sure she HASN’T? Marcy Neuman at Body on the Line blog has, just google her.
I’m deleting the last part of your comment, and challenging YOU to do what you want of Mona. It’s one thing to ‘drive-by-spew’ on other blogs, it’s another to stick around and deal with dissenting opinions constructively.
December 9, 2008 at 1:57 pm |
This is so funny. Thanks Kinzi for letting Mr “Know it all” even how I met my wife know how I actually met my wife.
This is just getting so silly. First, my wife is not veiled. Not because I’m racist against veiled women. I would have married her had she been from the Zulu tribe with a bone through her nose. We met here in the US, had I craved the lighter skinned ladies, I could have married a European American. But I guess my racist Arab instincts pushed me in the direction of someone similar to myself. Not because of the 99 other compatibility matches, but for the one lousy skin-tone. Guys you are so damn funny.
Second, I didn’t know that I and my ideals are in question here. You folks flatter me too much. But if you must know, I met with an old friend who started telling me how FOURTEEN YEARS AGO I was the one telling people how we need to look at INDIANS as EQUALS. Most thought I was crazy, and ignorant folks like yourself thought I was out of my mind, or there was something wrong with me!
It’s amusing how you see people with absolutely no point at all converting the subject personal. He comes over Internet blogs to spew his hate and an ugly face of Arab culture with no proper way of running a discussion. Not a single good idea, just showing how HATEFUL we really are of any alternate thought. Just imagine how hateful and racist among EACH OTHER we are, let alone foreigner
Mr Babli/safi or whatever your name is. What you’re doing is EXACTLY our problem. People with stupid ideas and extremely narrow view, oppressing others with their hate. Not sticking to a single topic and turning everything personal. I thank you for proving my points
December 9, 2008 at 6:53 pm |
WHOEVER YOU ARE: the MAIN reason I am deleting your comments, as Q said, is that SOME of what you are saying is giving Arabs a bad image to my Western readers. I’m not even sure you ARE Arab. Like I said, please DO go and start a blog…just NOT MY BLOG.
Qwaider, yea, imagine. Sigh. I hope you don’t mind I deleted that one sentence, you know how touchy ‘people’ are about that topic.
December 14, 2008 at 11:45 am |
Hmm i’m late as is usual lately, but really this is slightly disturbing to me. Although i’m not the biggest fan of mona and some of her views that still does knock the valid points she was making.
The thing that turned my stomach is that staunch denial and insistence that there is nothing wrong in the arab world if USrial(USA and israel for those not familiar with the term) didn’t mess things up. that thought just exemplifies the complacancy of the commentators here, essentially saying the problem with the arab world is something i can do lil about.
The other day I was out grilling with some friends, and it was pointed out to me something that didn’t quite register at the time.
one of my friends kept on referring to people by their nationality, not even their names even though he knew them. that drove the point home that living in our environment lowers you ability to tell what racism is.
the only defense i could cough up for my friend was a paltry … atleast he’s not the kind to act on it. that is the sad reality.
December 14, 2008 at 12:20 pm |
Hi Bam, welcome back. I ALMOST emailed you asking for help on this one.
I don’t agree with everything Mona says either, and like you, don’t believe that invalidates ALL she says. People like these commenters, who only read people they agree with, are dangerous to forward progress. Thanks for sharing the stomach lurch.
Interesting your friend’s use of nationality to be the distinctive of the person. It is like that for us, and it is usually suffixed with “but they are understanding Americans”. What hurts me is listening to the cell phone calls when people are with me, where me friend has to justify being in my presence to the caller. What did you mean by ‘they won’t act on it’?
Racism is a deeply rooted thing. I’m still dealing with it, it has to be dealt with INTENTIONALLY, I have learned. Otherwise, it lingers, feeds, and emerges when anger rises.
December 14, 2008 at 4:18 pm |
not act on it, as in it remains a thought. he doesn’t really mean that egyptians are only good for a certain job when he uses the term he is just used to that manner of speech and generally will monitor himself and correct his behavior if he recognizes it as racist. but then again that tends to get harder and harder to do with time
December 21, 2008 at 8:52 am |
I just saw the “bite his head off” threat up there. Although I thought it was funny, you shouldn’t back down. these issues are holding Arabs back without them realizing it. I have been writing the :Arabs will never be Ever” posts in hope that more attention is given to Arab related shortcomings.
December 21, 2008 at 9:35 am |
Ya Mab3oos, where were you when I needed you???
I’m glad you caught the humor as it was intended…I was trying to be tough stuff like you are.
OK, I’ll try not to back down, but the diff is you as an Arab get a different response than I do as a foreigner. I’ve learned that if a foreigner points out a problem, most folks circle the wagons and defend the culture as a whole even if that I say about one aspect of it is true. Then of course, the DEFAULT response to any criticism is JUST like this person: Iraq. Iraq Iraq.
There ARE a number of Arabs, like you, who are pointing out the bad AND giving options for change, I like to hang out with them.